A collection of notes & research on the HP 16500 series logic analyzers. I’m buying one in a few days, and trying to understand the differences between versions, and the myriad of features & options.
I believe I’m getting the following configuration:
- 16500B Mainframe
- Hard-disk (the owner says he added, and thought that made this essentially a C model, but that’s not quite true)
- Network option (not sure which one)
- (1) 16530 400 Megasample per second (MS/s) scope timebase
- (3) 16531 400 MS/s dual channel scope module
- (1) 16555A 100 MHz state / 500 MHz 68 Channel logic analyzer 1MS depth
There’s a lot of documentation, and the mainframe and cards have their own manuals. Generally, everything has a User Guide, a Service Guide and a Programmers Guide. The mainframe also has a Setup Guide & a User’s Reference. The User’s Reference covers the basic operation of the mainframe itself. Unfortunately, the only available PDF it has a font issue, making it very difficult to read.
To understand how to use the logic analysis & oscilloscope functions, refer to the manuals for the cards themselves.
Other references online:
- This thread on Eevblog
- This blog on the 16500A & B
- This PDF that explains the differences between options & cards (though there seems to be some inaccurate info on there)
- CF Card mod
- Phil’s page on RAM upgrades
The 16500L card gives you a 15 pin AUI jack, for which an adapter (or Media Access Unit) is required for 10Base-T Ethernet connectivity.
The 16500H card has an RJ-45 jack built in, as well as the expansion card connector (also on the 16500L?) and a “High Speed Port” for connection to the 16505A Prototype Analyzer (is this SCSI?)
The 16500C has an RJ-45 jack built in. X-windows connectivity is supported on the B & C models, but only later cards are fully supported. For example, earlier scope cards will have a visible interface, but won’t show their trace; only the 16532A Oscilloscope Module will.
Programming via LAN can either happen via sockets at port 5025, echoing commands to \system\program over NFS, or copying a file containing a list of commands to \system\program.
16500B ships with 8MB, and has been found to support up to 64MB of RAM, though earlier reports from HP say it tops out at 32MB. It’s unclear if 64MB makes a difference vs 32MB. From Phil’s findings, it seems the mainframe is tolerant of EDO or FPM RAM, and though the spec says parity, you can get away without it.
16500B & 16500C both run a Motorola 68EC030, per their Service Guides. One of the links above claims that the ‘B’ runs a 68020
Turns out the hard drive on this unit is no good (got a few bucks off because of it). These machines are of the IDE era, and the list of supported drives is small, and mostly Quantum Fireballs. Ko4bb’s page seems to have the most comprehensive write-up, and I already have a Syba SD-CF-IDE-A adapter on the way. I’m hoping a 128MB CF card that I already have lying around will be supported, but I’ve also ordered a 256MB card that was explicitly on Ko4bb’s list.
Other things to look at
- 16505A Prototype Analyzer.
- 16534A 2GS/s, 500MHz dual channel scope (no extra timebase card needed)
- 16521A 48 channel pattern generator (I don’t know if this works on it’s own, or is only an expander to the 12 channel 16520A).
I opened it up, gave it a good cleaning, and reseated all of the connectors. It was mentioned that the hard drive may be problematic, and so is the touch-screen.
- With the mouse connected, I get an ‘Impaired’ error about the touchscreen, but it seems to work.
- The hard drive does not work
- I can boot off either the original Composite System Disk or the hand-made ‘boot disk’, but in either case, none of the cards are recognized, and it doesn’t even see the network card.
I believe the mainframe need to see the modules for the installed cards on the boot disk, so lets see about making our own.
- If I make a copy of the boot disk by copying files in windows I get an error on boot.
- Windows complains about formatting a floppy
- The mainframe can format floppies. I’ve had mixed success – it formatted one floppy fine, and whined about another one after having just formatted it.
- I was able to boot with a disk I made by formatting on the mainframe, and copying files over from Windows, however I’m still seeing unrecognized cards.
- I removed all but one timebase & one scope card, and still not recognizing the cards.
Hard Drive, revisited
The original hard drive finally spun up to life after a number of reboots and I got a few days of playing around with it until the parts came to replace the drive. I largely followed the instructions on Ko4bb’s page, but had a few difficulties:
- When copying files (individually, unfortunately) from the floppy to the drive, you have to go into the name field, and hit clear so that it automatically picks up the name of file. If you don’t do this, it still has the name of the last filed you copied, and you’ll end up writing over it.
- I had a hell of a time getting file writes to stick at first. My first few attempts gave me an empty hard drive upon reboot. I wasn’t sure if it was a bad card, or my process (I followed the instructions), but what finally worked was a combination of the last CF card in my inventory, and rebooting after formatting, and then rebooting again after making the /SYSTEM folder, just in case. That did the trick and I am now able to boot off the CF card to the latest OS.
The ‘impaired’ status was ultimately fixed by removing the face panel and cleaning off the bezel on both sides, and brushing off the IR emitter / receivers. One of the links above incorrectly states that this is an acoustic touchscreen – it’s not: It’s an IR grid, similar to some Tek scopes of the same era. Works great now.
I’ve got this connected up to the RC2014 bus with the flying leads into a strip of header pins, but it’s not something I’d like to repeat. Instead, I should build a breakout board. This guy made some inline adapters for various 8 bit platforms, but hasn’t updated his site with any detailed info.
Here’s the pod pinout, from this post that also has some cool X-rays of the pod and leads.
There are no electronics in the pods, but there is an RC network in the probes. I’m clearly not the first person who wanted to connect their logic analyzer to a board without using a bunch of leads, and HP has a whole document detailing their series of connectors and accessories dedicated to just that. This document describes an isolation network that should be built into the connector interface, and is I believe pretty much what’s in the probe body of the flying leads.
This is also the circuit in the isolation adapters, which reduce down to a 20 pin connector. If these are available cheap enough, it may be better than soldering a bunch of SMD resistors & caps.
The plus side is there only 12 – 15 bucks each, the downside it’s it’s more dangley shit hanging off the board, with a fragile flex PCB lead, and more connection points. Still, it saves a hundred SMD components.
Update – new cards arrived
the owner contacted me and said he found some other cards:
- (2) 16510B: 35 MHz State / 100 MHz Timing, 80 Channel, 1K Sample buffer Logic Analyzer
- (1) 16550A: 100 Mhz State / 500 MHz Timing, 102 Channel, 4K Sample buffer Logic Analyzer
- (1) 16520A 50 Mbps 12 Channel Pattern Generator
Unfortunately, none of the new logic analysis cards work with the existing one, in so much that they couldn’t stack to add channels, rather they’d function as their own separate logic analysis engine. I could stack the two 16510B cards for a total of 160 channels, albeit at a rather anemic sample depth & speed, or I could use the 16550 for 102 channels at 500MHz, but still shallower depth than what’s on the 16555. Ideally, I’d get another 16555 card, which I might if the price was right.
Definitely looking forward to messing with the pattern generator though!
- A: 16520A Pattern Generator
- B: 16531A 2 channel 100 MHz Oscilloscope
- C: 16530A Oscilloscope Timebase
- D: 16550A 102 Channel Logic Analyzer
- E: 16555A 68 Channel Logic Analyzer
- (2) 16510B 80 Channel Logic Analyzer cards
- (2) 16531A 2 channel 100 MHz Oscilloscope cards
- A: 16555A 68 Channel Logic Analyzer
- B: 16555A 68 Channel Logic Analyzer (bonded to above)
- C: 165621A 48 Pattern Generator Expansion (needs 16520A)
- D: 16520A 12 Channel Pattern Generator
- E: 16534A 2 channel 500 MHz Oscilloscope (built-in timebase)
Thanks to Alex C who pointed out that if you’re using multiple 16555A cards, you need to be mindful of the setting of the Master jumper – as if they’re both set to master, the mainframe gets confused. See the manual for the jumper settings.